In short no! Sorry Derek but I think you are pulling out of context there with Hebrews 4v3 - Paul is focusing on rest - however the creation accounts are viewed, the wisdom literatute can't be left out - Wisdom is represented as already in existance before creation and parallel to the divine word (Job, Proverbs),it is God's agent in creation and this is how it is linked into the New Testament. Isaiah stresses the goal of history to be a new creation, the vison of the end times being pictured in terms of the first things. Jesus inaugurates the long awaited new creation - he is the new Adam and the image and likeness of God.(Corinthians and Colossians, if I remember correctly) he is the agent and sustainer of all creation. Jesus as the word at the start of John's gospel unites the creative word of the Old Testament and the concept of wisdom as the mediator in creation. "Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God" (1 Cor. 1:24). That is why I believe God is still well and truly involved in creation through the trinity -Jesus is the word of God, the wisdom of God and the agent and sustainer of all creation... sorry to go on and it is rather "off the cuff" but I pray it helps. :)
God created the heavens and the earth and in some senses left things to work through established physical or natural laws and these continue to maintain the world in a macro sense (which is why, for example, we get variable weather systems and this year the prevailing currents have drifted somewhat giving us less sun and more rain than we would normally expect.)
However God has also given us the ability to think and reason and thus can expect us to take care of his creation and to use our intellect and scientific skills to further develop his creation. Some of us might not be alive now if it were not for advances in medical science in the 2oth century. Thus we have a role to play: God can be creative through us in many ways.
God does indeed help us: why else would we intercede for those in danger, those in hunger or distress if we did not believe that God could still be involved?
Are we not part of God's plan? I accept that sometimes there seems to be an incredible juxtaposition of events that would indicate God working to achieve his aims; yet sometimes there is God working in a miraculous way. Is this being creative?
So we beleive God is still being creative but simultaneously we have our part of play according to the understanding and skills that we individually have.
"So we beleive God is still being creative but simultaneously we have our part of play according to the understanding and skills that we individually have."
I have a passionate desire to see that we engage with the bible as community as well as individually, we have fostered a culture of preaching in the singular and ignored the communal. We need community learning, of exploration and truth seeking together. "When two or three are gather in my name"... The bible is a living text, the trinity a living relationship and through engaging communally and relationally we have an added dimension of enlightenment, discernment, shared undertsanidng and inspiration.
To paraphrase Herbert (and take him slightly out of context) "we all have our part to play"!
Interesting points - especially about community which has been very much a focus of our earlier discussions this year. Also the very good debate we had about climate change came to mind.
To be effective we need to act together and to quote Nigel
"The bible is a living text, ...and through engaging communally and relationally we have an added dimension of enlightenment, discernment, shared understanding and inspiration"
which is what I hope we continue on Friday when the next instalment of Genesis is talked through.
How much more have I noticed when I have to retell the story!
12 comments:
Do you think God is still involved in creation, or did he do it the once (in those 6days) and then left it to 'evolve' into what is happening today ?
Hebrews 4v3:-
"...his work has been finished since the creation of the world..."
Does that mean we are now resposible and we cannot expect God to help us in looking after our world?
I wondered if someone might ask that!
Any thoughts?
In short no!
Sorry Derek but I think you are pulling out of context there with Hebrews 4v3 - Paul is focusing on rest - however the creation accounts are viewed, the wisdom literatute can't be left out - Wisdom is represented as already in existance before creation and parallel to the divine word (Job, Proverbs),it is God's agent in creation and this is how it is linked into the New Testament. Isaiah stresses the goal of history to be a new creation, the vison of the end times being pictured in terms of the first things. Jesus inaugurates the long awaited new creation - he is the new Adam and the image and likeness of God.(Corinthians and Colossians, if I remember correctly) he is the agent and sustainer of all creation. Jesus as the word at the start of John's gospel unites the creative word of the Old Testament and the concept of wisdom as the mediator in creation. "Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God" (1 Cor. 1:24). That is why I believe God is still well and truly involved in creation through the trinity -Jesus is the word of God, the wisdom of God and the agent and sustainer of all creation... sorry to go on and it is rather "off the cuff" but I pray it helps. :)
Brilliant!
I provoked the sort of response I was hoping for :o)
go Nigel go. some informative thinking rather than provoking questions and comments just what we want to see. Answers rather than more questions
.. although you can only give answers if there are questions :o)
but we can end up with not enough guidance and answers to the common questions everyone ask. give us answers not questions
God created the heavens and the earth and in some senses left things to work through established physical or natural laws and these continue to maintain the world in a macro sense (which is why, for example, we get variable weather systems and this year the prevailing currents have drifted somewhat giving us less sun and more rain than we would normally expect.)
However God has also given us the ability to think and reason and thus can expect us to take care of his creation and to use our intellect and scientific skills to further develop his creation. Some of us might not be alive now if it were not for advances in medical science in the 2oth century. Thus we have a role to play: God can be creative through us in many ways.
God does indeed help us: why else would we intercede for those in danger, those in hunger or distress if we did not believe that God could still be involved?
Are we not part of God's plan? I accept that sometimes there seems to be an incredible juxtaposition of events that would indicate God working to achieve his aims; yet sometimes there is God working in a miraculous way. Is this being creative?
So we beleive God is still being creative but simultaneously we have our part of play according to the understanding and skills that we individually have.
Thanks for that Herbert, and paricularly this:
"So we beleive God is still being creative but simultaneously we have our part of play according to the understanding and skills that we individually have."
I have a passionate desire to see that we engage with the bible as community as well as individually, we have fostered a culture of preaching in the singular and ignored the communal. We need community learning, of exploration and truth seeking together. "When two or three are gather in my name"... The bible is a living text, the trinity a living relationship and through engaging communally and relationally we have an added dimension of enlightenment, discernment, shared undertsanidng and inspiration.
To paraphrase Herbert (and take him slightly out of context) "we all have our part to play"!
Interesting points - especially about community which has been very much a focus of our earlier discussions this year. Also the very good debate we had about climate change came to mind.
To be effective we need to act together and to quote Nigel
"The bible is a living text, ...and through engaging communally and relationally we have an added dimension of enlightenment, discernment, shared understanding and inspiration"
which is what I hope we continue on Friday when the next instalment of Genesis is talked through.
How much more have I noticed when I have to retell the story!
Post a Comment